Interview

Medjugorje, February, 1983

Svetozar Kraljevic: Ivanka, you and Mirjana were taking a walk together that day. Why were you walking together?

Ivanka Ivankovic: We regularly walked together in that area. We had been at my house; then we decided to take our walk.

For ten years now, the statue of Gospa in the town of Civitavecchia is weeping tears of blood

An interview with Mons. Girolamo Grillo from Civitavecchia – “The tree can be recognised by its fruits”, quotes Bishop Girolamo Grillo the words of Jesus from the Gospel, when somebody asks him about Gospa weeping tears of blood in the town of Civitavecchia. A little statue of Our Lady bought in Medjugorje more than ten years ago started to weep tears of blood about ten years ago, in the village of Pantano, near the town of Civitavecchia, 60 km from Rome.

- How would you summarise the messages of Medjugorje? What is distinguishing these messages from those in Lourdes or Fatima?

Bishop Hnilica – In all three places, Our Lady is inviting us to repentance, forgiveness and prayer. In this aspect of the message, these three apparitions are similar. However, the difference in Medjugorje is that the apparitions are lasting for 23 years now. The intensity of the continuation of the supernatural is neither declining nor diminishing during all these years, and the result is an even greater number of intellectuals that are converted here.

How did the Festival first begin? What was its aim?

This festival began 17 years ago when Fr. Slavko began to help a group of young people understand Medjugorje, also through the help of songs personal testimonies. I wasn’t here then, so I can’t tell you more about that. It was certainly a group of young people who had been touched by Medjugorje and by Our Lady’s presence and by her messages. So, gradually, this festival, this international meeting grew.

How do you see the spirituality of Medjugorje - if there is a spirituality of Medjugorje at all?

I have been asking the question of myself and others if there is a distinct spirituality of Medjugorje. I do not think there is. I think it is more a call to deepen the spirituality that we already have. A new understanding of what we all received as children, in school and home; it is a reawakening of that, it is a renewal of that kind of uncomplicated faith, unembarrassed faith. As for the apparitions of Mary, at first you feel - if she is the Mother of God - her messages should be more theologically substantial. In fact they are deceptively simple. And I say to myself: I have been through theology courses, maybe this is the time for me to get back to the simple faith that we all have, and we grew up with. Time to look again at what Our Lady is saying, read the messages again, re-read them, and read between the lines, between the words.

Jelena, you have been absent from the pages of Echo for some time. What has been happening in your life lately? Who is Jelena today?

We’re expecting our third child, but the pregnancy hasn’t been going according to previsions, and I’ve been confined to total rest. But I’ve seen how this condition of immobility regards my body only, while my spirit has been able to broaden out continually. So this has been a time of grace for me, because love has two sides to it. There is the joy and the enthusiasm of giving, even though this is accompanied by the cross, but it is when the cross is accepted, that our joy is even deeper. Then, everything is okay. It seems as though life should be always downhill to be true – or that’s how we imagine it. However, I am coming to understand ever more how suffering is our true life. So I can say that right now I am living this “true life.”

This year is the 25th anniversary of Our Lady’s apparitions at Medjugorje. You were a witness of the extraordinary events of the first years. In the light of your personal journey and your priestly experience, what memories awake in you today?

With regards to my past years in Medjugorje, not a lot of things come to mind right now. In 1985 I began gradually withdrawing from Medjugorje to live in contemplation. As my relationship with God grew deeper there was an awakening of the memory of my soul, that space where the Holy Spirit was able to assume the role of main actor, to reveal the Mystery. In this memory there’s not so much the phenomena of Medjugorje, but rather the divine truth of the living and true God, and the Mother of God who is present in and works in us. It is the truth of the Church.

Vicka: ... When you look at Our Lady the beauty of her face is so wonderful that words can't describe it. She herself has said that she is beautiful because she loves. This is the way we must be beautiful - above all, beautiful inside - so that our faces can radiate this beauty too... Unfortunately, we hide our faces behind many types of masks; we hide everything inside.. We have to begin to love to be beautiful. With all our hearts we should begin by loving those in our homes, our family and then the others around us. True beauty is spiritual beauty.

Vicka: ... Just entered, we have gone on, walking, perhaps three, four meters. We have not visited the whole Heaven, but the Gospa has made sense of it. We have seen a great space wound by a light that it doesn't exist here on the earth. We have seen the people that are neither fat, neither thin, but all equal ones and they have dresses of three colors: the grey , the yellow and the pink. The people walk, sing, pray. There were some small flying Angels. The Gospa has told us: "Look at how much the people are happy in the Heaven". And a joy that cannot be described and that here on the earth it doesn't exist.

What touches young people most in Medjugorje? What attracts them?

Their longing for peace, their thirst for the truth. The world deceives us so often. The media emphasise mostly negative things. Young people are very much manipulated in the area of sexuality, and attacked in their souls. This can lead to severe consequences if their faith has not been strengthened beforehand. The message of Medjugorje awakens in them a longing for true peace, and probably for God and for the family... for intact families. Many people come from broken families nowadays. It is very rare that one finds a family, where the love of the neighbour is really lived, where there is prayer, where parents do not divorce after the first difficulty. But, in my opinion, what draws them mostly to Medjugorje is their longing for God, and the longing to find a meaning to their lives. Here you can meet Mary and Christ more intensely than at home. Another important factor is that young people meet other young people, whom they perceive to have found peace, and to have immersed more deeply in the spiritual life.

Dragan Soldo: You went on pilgrimage to many other great Marian shrines. Can you say something about the specificity of Medjugorje?

Mons. José Domingo Ulloa: The specificity of Medjugorje is the gift of peace received here. This is what humanity is longing for today, and this gift is received in Medjugorje through our Mother Mary. It is not only about inner peace, but also about discovering that we are all brothers, and that conflicts and violence are not a solution. This peace should be shared with others.

Lidija Paris: You are born in Vukovar, and your father was born in Posusje. So many years after the war, it is noticeable that you still carry a deep inner pain remembering all that has happened. You came here with an envelope containing some photographs and some papers. This is all that remains of the first 40 years of your life…

Mirjana Kovač: I came to be in Medjugorje during these days that are still so painful for me. With faith in God, it is much easier for us to carry our cross. We unite our cross to the cross of Jesus, we offer everything to Him. Jesus allowed us this dignity. Thanks to my father and my mother who educated us in faith in God, and with the Rosary in the hand, during those days that are unimaginable for a human intelligence, we had the impression that we were somehow mysteriously supported. We were conscious that the worst could happen at any moment, but thanks to our faith in God, everything had another dimension. Death was closer to us then life…

On other places of pilgrimage where Our Lady was appearing, some miracles have happened, and this is beautiful. But here, for such a long time, Our Lady is giving messages, is continuing to speak. I would say that, here, Our Lady continues to speak to the humanity. She is not doing it from a pulpit, but as a mother. Those who want to hear and to obey – they listen. Those who do not want – they don’t listen. Our Lady is continuing to speak here. I think that this is because the time, in which we live, is powerful and important as no time before. I our time, Our Lady is observing as a mother, seeing our reality and coming to help us to think again about our way of life and about the world in which we live.

It is very helpful to be members of a praying community. The family life is under a lot of pressure. Children are bombarded all the time by messages from the media that are contrary to what our faith is teaching us. I see more and more the importance of living in a community with likeminded people. Perhaps especially at the time when children don’t want to listen to their parents, they are able to get the same message form the people that they respect within the community. Prayer is the key.

Dominique Delforge-Struyf: I could never be a psychotherapist as I am today without prayer. What Medjugorje brought to me – concerning my work – is the possibility to listen to people while uniting my intelligence and my heart. Prayer really makes it possible to me to create this link, and also not to allow people to eat me up, to overdo, to become ill in this work, which is wonderful, but extremely hard. When I have the occasion to come to Medjugorje, I also seek this atmosphere of prayer that allows me each time to find a new motivation to pray for my patients and to fast for them.

Leon Dolenec: We do not watch television, we do not play with the computer, we do not go for useless parties; we are occupied with Jesus and Mary. We have about 100 collaborators. We also have a circle of friends who help us in different ways, a few thousands of them.

Rita Falsetto: I would just like to encourage people to come to Medjugorje, to open up their hearts, to God’s Love, to Our Lady. Even though they may feel that they are not worthy enough, that they are in problems… I wish to thank everybody here in Medjugorje and throughout this country for giving me the time and the chance to share in a part of this wonderful country and this wonderful place. And don’t give up on God, because he will never give up on you! Thank you.

We see that there is much tension in the world. America has felt the violence of the terrorism. How much America today can listen to the message of Peace and work on a just peace in the whole world?

I think that we have not got the message yet. There was a great turn to the Lord right after September 11th, but we need more then that, I think, before that country really turns to the Lord. So we just pray for that day, we hope we will turn to the Lord before we have to learn too many lessons, but this is also an act of the mercy of God. Everything is an act of the mercy of God. We know very well that God in his merciful love, in his permissive Providence, will take all the means possible that none of the least of his children will be totally lost. That’s all that really matters.

Sometimes God does not answer our prayers the way we want him to answer, but that is a part of being a Christian too: learning to carry the cross. Every one of us has a cross to carry. Maybe it is God’s will that we carry our cross. We have to be willing to accept that. That is all a part of the will of God. What we need to do and to know when we come to places like this is that we come and surrender to God; we accept His will whatever it may be. Even if our own personal requests are not granted in the way that we expect, nevertheless we are blessed if our faith is deepened, if we grow in our love for God and for his Mother.

Melinda Dumitrescu: I was studying music in Germany, at the Music Academy in Lübeck, where Brahms and others were also studying. I heard about Medjugorje, I read a book with Our Lady’s messages. Ever since my childhood, I was successful in music. I was – as people say – a Wunderkind, but success was not sufficient to fill my heart. I was always seeking something else. I was traveling a lot, and I was always asking myself: where do I really belong, where is my family? I was traveling because of my studies and because of the concerts. I was all the time leaving behind me people whom I loved. While reading the messages of Medjugorje, I felt that - here - I could find what my heart was seeking.

Hubert Liebherr: There are times when everything goes well, and times when I think that nothing functions for me! What had helped me personally was Our Lady’s answer given to the visionaries, when they asked Her why She had chosen them. She said that she had chosen neither the best ones nor the worst ones. When I saw that they were ordinary people, that each one of them has a character, a specificity, it helped me. They are ordinary, I am ordinary… it means that it is possible. If Our Lady had chosen some very holy people, very much advanced in spiritual life, I would have probably said that it was not my world, or that I will never make it. It helped me. There are periods when I have difficulties with prayer, but the Lord knows me and has understanding for my weaknesses. This is why I can trust Him, I can trust in His love and mercy.

Those who go against God and against His law of love destroy themselves, individually and collectively. Today, there are some really immoral laws that destroy human beings, in some cases even proscribe to kill an unborn child. There are thousands of reasons for which we can say that human beings destroy themselves today. I would not say that this was God’s punishment; it is a self-destruction, and human beings are working on it themselves. When an alcoholic drinks too much, gets a lever disease and dies from it, it is not God who punished his lever, but the alcohol that destroyed it, that the person drunk with so much passion.

Jim Caviezel: ... She said that Ivan Dragicevic was coming to Ireland… I met with him a couple of times, and during an apparition, I felt a physical presence. Ivan told me two things that really hit me: “Jim, man always makes time for what he loves”, and “The reason man does not make time for God is that he does not love God”. Then, he talked to me about praying from the heart. That became like a beginning of a mission for me – to always pray from my heart.

From May 2 to 18, 2004, a group of musicians from Medjugorje participated in an apostolic journey in South Korea, during which they visited 13 parishes, among which the Bundang St. John’s Church, the biggest parish in Asia (15.000 parishioners). They also had two big encounters at Namjang, the only Korean Marian shrine. They played for his Eminence, Cardinal Su Hwan Stefano Kim. Korean friends of Medjugorje organized this trip, and Dr. Marta Nam, a Korean interpreter living in Rome, accompanied them.

To me it seems obvious that Medjugorje is a place where God dwells, where Heaven dwells. When people come here, something special takes place, they seem to be “tamed” by the presence of God and the presence of Mary, even if they are not aware of it. In this way, the two obstacles we are speaking about have a tendency to diminish or perhaps to even disappear. This is why I think that Medjugorje is an important place of healing and that it has to become even more so. In the times to come I think that Medjugorje has to live more and more this grace of healing.

Mgr. Hermann Reich: I was struck by the main theme of our Lady’s messages, which is peace. Then, there is always again the question of conversion and confession. These are the main themes. I am also struck by the fact that she always comes back to the theme of prayer: do not be tired; pray, pray; decide yourselves for prayer; pray better. I think that there is much prayer, but maybe people do not pray in the right way. There is much prayer, there is quantity but, in many ways, there is a lack of quality. I think that we have, according to the desire of Our Lady, not to pray less but to improve the quality. We have to pray better.

Mario Vuknic: Medjugorje is an invitation to a change of life, to put prayer in life, to a change that requires great efforts… There is always a fear of losing old habits. However, in changing our life, we receive much, much more: a greater fullness of life. Medjugorje is a place where miracles do happen. This is a fact. We are witnesses. And I know many others.

Lidija Paris-Brajša: What do you think about ecumenism? Sometimes it seems that it is easier in countries where there is a religion representing the majority, and several religions representing minorities… Where the number of the faithful is equal, it seems to be more difficult…

Abba Nicolas Hakim: I will tell you one thing: we have to pray! Meetings are not enough: we have to pray much. Prayer unites the whole Church. If the Holy Spirit leads me, I am united to all. One Spirit makes one Church. In the same Spirit, there are no enemies. You are my spirit - I am your spirit. Only if the Holy Spirit permeates the whole Church, will it be one. The superiors and those responsible have to invoke the Holy Spirit, and if they are filled with the Holy Spirit, the Church will be one ipso facto. The Pope said: if the Holy Spirit dwells in our hearts, the Church becomes one. Unity is very simple: it is the Holy Spirit in our hearts. There is something, which splits the Church: it is sin. Pride. Authority.

Fr. John Cooper: I think that there is a strong connection between praying and faith. The more you pray, the more you grow in faith. But also, I encourage people to pray for the gift of faith. People pray for material things, but how many pray to have a strong faith, for ability to love their husband or wife? When we pray for the spiritual gifts, which are necessary, God always answers our prayers. Many people come to me and say their faith is growing weaker. I tell them to pray for a stronger faith, to get into the habit of daily prayer, to take daily prayer seriously, to pray about faults they have. We need to relate confession to daily life.

Manuel Reato (23), a student of theology from Torino, has come several times to Medjugorje. Medjugorje has changed his life. Our Lady’s messages have deeply touched his heart and he believes that they are important for the whole world. Manuel is trying to live Our Lady’s message in his daily life. In Medjugorje, he has learned to seek God, here, he has learned how to pray. Although he is in a wheelchair since his early childhood, Manuel feels a call to become a priest.